Suspension Leak

[MTCFORUM]

I can't remember if I mentioned this yet or not. Sorry if duplicate.

Lately my front end has been down in the mornings. I suspect an air leak on that end of the vehicle.

I know the compressor and left air strut are new, so I suspect the right air bag (or maybe the dryer.)

I have heard that you should spray them and the hose connections with soapy water to look for leaks.

When should I do this? Once it is fully up, it seems I wouldn't see anything as it takes a full 8 hours to drop. I hit the air strut pretty good this afternoon, with the wheel turned all the way out, and I didn't see any bubbles, but...

If I don't pump the car up, it is nearly impossible to get in there, and I would guess that the leak is most pronouced when the rubber is deflated?

Any comments/advice on this quadry?

I did spray the left bag, too, with similar lack of results...

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

scott,
shut the suspension off and go for a ride. try to make it a good ride. when you come back your front end should be down indicating bad front struts. i am guessing that the left front strut was replaced by a dealer before you purchased it. depending on how long it has been i would replace that right strut or both. it is not the dryer. i had a long tald about compressors with blue collar when i replaced my struts and compressor and found out that the compressor fills all of the lines from the same area. what i am trying to say is that if you pulled all of your air lines and swapped them in different locations it would work the same. if you had a bad dryer i think your entire car would be down rather than just the first. i have a great diagnostic c.d. that he gave me but cant find it anywhere. will advise when/if i find it.

[MTCFORUM]

Thanks. I never thought of driving with the air off, but I will do that tonight and see if I can duplicate the problem!

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

Ok, did that. The car didn't drop that I can tell. I drove it hard... Harder than I usually do. I also drove through two parking lots with speed bumps trying to get the spring to compress/decompress.

Maybe the leak is just that slow? I left the switch off and will see how it is in the morning.

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

I used a solution of soapy water in a spray bottle, I then watched the bag for a little while. There were a lot of very small leaks that showed up. They were not at all like a tire puncture, just very, very small spots of foam showing. To verify the leaks I wiped the area clean and got it very wet and waited, the tiny little bubbles returned and I then ordered new struts from Ford and a compressor from Bluecollar. I installed the '97/'98 struts on my '94 and no more collapsed front. A better ride also. You can get rebagged struts from other sources, but the shock portion is still just a used shock. The air lines are easy to get off, all you have to do is push in on the colored collar to release the seal and it comes right out. DO NOT CUT OR FORCE!!

[MTCFORUM]

i am going to send eddie (blue collar) a message and see if he would like to come over and join. as far as i am concerned he is the be all end all of the air ride suspensions. he knows these things in and out and is dedicated to those who want to learn. i was one of the first to buy a compressor from him from the lod and found his customer service to be some of the best i have experienced.

scott, i think it is that front right strut leaking. usually if one goes bad, the other is not far behind. if the dealer did it, they really dont care. their only goal is to make it work until they can get it out the door. this is only my opinion from minimal experience and some reading. that is why i am gonna shoot blue collar a line.

[MTCFORUM]

I registered a couple of weeks ago, just never found the time to come back.

The reason for driving the car with the suspension switch off is to isolate an electrical problem from a "manual" leaking problem. Turning the suspension switch off takes the module,solenoids,wiring,sensors,etc. out of the equation,leaving what holdes the air in(strut or bladder) as the only culprit.

Your RF air strut may have a slow leak from the upper o-ring ON TOP of the strut. Its rare,but possible. (you can't replace this o-ring), or maybe even its leaking past the o-rings sealing the solenoids to the strut(also rare unless its been disturbed lately).
Try turning off the switch and letting it sit overnite as well as driving it a full day with the suspension switch off and driving it nOrMaL.

[MTCFORUM]

Thanks Eddie, I will try that.

So far all I can get the thing to do is drop overnight. I tried again to look for leaks over the weekend and didn't see any.

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

There'sa 90 percent chance that your other bag is leaking. The leak is covered up at times and exposed at other times. Maybe you park in a place that is not level every now and then?

There's only a couple of ways for air to escape - through the solenoid functioning normally and through a leak. That's it. Just like a tire, the air either escapes through the valvestem, or through a leak - whether it be at the stem, in the tread, on the sidewall, etc. - some type of leak.

What I would do is measure the height difference between the two front sides and the next time you see the car dropped, measure the height again. If in fact one of the struts is leaking, it should be lower than the other side, I'd estimate by at least a half-inch. If it is, it could offer some reassurance that the bag is leaking.

[MTCFORUM]

but isnt the system designed to automatically level? wouldnt it automatically remove air from the good strut to keep both level?

just trying to learn a little.

[MTCFORUM]

No, because the car has been sitting overnight and the system is not active. What I was saying was that after the car has dropped overnight, measure the two front sides. You can assume that one of them is good because you replaced it already, but you can't actually be sure. What I was saying was that if the height difference between the two sides when it is dropped equals a half inch more than the height difference when the car is at ride height, it would be a good indication that the low side is leaking and essentially provide further reassurance to your hunch.

You know I have a separate system on my car. When I let out the air from the right side front, the entire front end drops but there will be about a 3/4" difference between them. It really depends on how high the car is to begin with, but I'm guessing at least a half inch difference will be pretty normal.

The truth is, there COULD be a problem with the other side, solenoid o-ring, bag leak, anything. If this test pans out, then I would assume the lower side is leaking and replace it.

Kale

[MTCFORUM]

Ok, that last post I could not follow because my head hurts too much from being sick.

What I found is

after a normal easy drive:

rear 28 5/8" both sides
front 27 5/8" both sides (I have lowered the front, not the rear

In am when front down
rear the same
front right was 1 " lower than the left, but I can't remember the exact measurement.

this tells me the right is at fault, correct?

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

Yes. That's exactly what I was trying to explain. The left side still has the same amount of pressure in it, but since the right side is leaking, the entire front end of the car drops. It's just the suspension geometry. You don't even notice it unless you look for it - it just looks like the front end is down although in actuality only one side has lost air pressure.

Kale

[MTCFORUM]

When my front suspension died the entire front went down. I was a little bit lucky in that my compressor did raise the car enough to get it in the garage and when I jacked it up enough and sprayed it with soapy water a zillion tiny bubbles gradually appeared. As the car did go back to near correct ride height I continued to drive it for a few more days and then the compressor blew a rod requiring that I buy a compressor too.
When I got the parts installed I took the compressor apart to see if it was suitable to rebuild and discovered the broken rod. I also took the drier apart and found that the dessicant was holding about 2 ounces or more of water, the retaining screen was held together by rust and the felt filters at both ends were severely dirty. I don't see how any air was getting through the drier due to it's condition and it looked like the entire car had been submerged, though I know it had not . A pair of new struts (from Ford) and a rebuilt air compressor (from Blue collar) later and my SnowFlake was up and riding again at it's proper level. Also thanks to Kale for some technical info. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">

[MTCFORUM]

OK, well this is good and bad....

I had the left strut replaced on 5/28/99 (the very last day of the warranty) they also replaced the compressor "because the codes said it was failing"

I am guessing I should jump on this strut thing ASAP to avoid damaging my relatively new compressor....

It's been about 2 weeks total and I have noticed it completely down maybe 7 times in those 14 days....

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

I would say that you are fine from a compressor standpoint. I used to dump mine all the time and the compressor never died on me. I probably did it for 6-8 months before I installed the reserve tank system. The car does have safeguards to protect the compressor, it will only run for 90 seconds. If the car gets up in that time, then I would say you are fine but fix the leaky strut asap.

Kale

[MTCFORUM]

Thanks for all the info, Kale. I didn't see the measurement thing on the search feature over on LOD....

I have another question,

What is the difference that justifies the signifigant cost difference between a 95 and 96 front air strut? $299 for a 95 vs $389 for a 96?

I am curious because there must be some signifigant difference....

It makes me nervous enough I am going to check my left one and see what it is before I buy one, just to make sure they didn't screw up and that they match, as it has been replaced and the RH is original.

Oh, and one final question,

How do the Mk 8's compare to the Mk 7's for life of air components? My dad's 7 is a 90 with 110K miles on it and he has the original bags and compressor, and it doesn't leak that I can tell. The compressors is a little noisy, but not as loud as mine was before it was replaced...

Scott

[MTCFORUM]

I THINK the 96s came with a sportier suspension package and may be the reason for the price difference. Maybe BC will chime in on the M7 vs M8 life expectancy, he knows that stuff better than I do. I would imagine they are about the same. My car has the original rear bags and I still have the original fronts that I will be re-installing soon. My car has roughly 120K in it and I dump it every night.

Kale

[MTCFORUM]

actually, look a little closer. the early generations cost more money and were made out of metal. the later (i think after 96) were made out of plastic and cost less money. i got the later generation struts and love them. the handling improved greatly. you want to purchase them from ford parts network. i have never seen a single person complain about the service they recieved. and from what i have seen, their strut prices are the best you can find.

just remember. if you look at your left strut and it is made out of plastic, it is a later version. if it is metal it is the early version and will cost more money. i agree with your idea to keep them the same. i think the plastic version may flex more offering a softer ride.

[MTCFORUM]

Torrie is a great guy... not that others are bad, but Torrie is great....

Thanks for the help, I didn't think to evaluate the material, and it's too wet out right now. Tomorrow or Monday maybe.

thanks again for clearing that up,
Scott

[MTCFORUM]

if you are not sure what you got, feel free to take a photo and post

[MTCFORUM]

The early gens stopped in 96, the new gens started in 97. He was saying that the 96 strut is more expensive than the 95. The new gens are actually cheaper, as you know, than the early gens and don't come anywhere near 389 bucks.

Kale<BR><BR>
[Modified by djKale, 6:14 PM 3/10/2002]