Debating Novi 2000 or a Turbo on my car

[Salstang00]

Mods are in Sig. I plan on driving the car often, next year hopefully not a dailt ride but I enjoy driving my car so It will be driven on streets. The Turbo's Im looking at are:
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery/Mach1/index.htm

http://www.x2cmotorsports.com/superchargers_turbos.shtml

Waht do you guys think?

[96GTS]

That's a no brainer...Go turbo!
Pros:
-Doesn't take HP to make HP (no belt)
-Change boost w/ a knob or button
-Sounds freakin wicked!!!!!
-Not as common and blowers

Cons:
-Cost
-Cost
-Cost
:D
Darren

[ModularFox]

Get the turbo if you can afford it!

[Bad99GT]

I've heard from some tuners that turbos are tuning nightmares. Might want to add this to the con list. Other than that the turbo would be FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!

[Salstang00]

Any recommended tuners? Any kits you recommend?

[smashedheadcat]

This looks like a good kit.

http://www.proturbokits.com/9903mustang464partslist.htm

[b1nyc]

Tuners, Get a DFI and have Job Spetter Jr. tune it. No better in the business. Lucky for me he's near my house.:D

[Whitestang98]

yea i would recommend Job too but he is pretty expensive and all the way up the coast from u...

b1nyc: where do u live...Hastings?....im in Yonkers about 10-15 mins away from Turbo People...

Paul

[b1nyc]

Right across the bridge in Rockland.:evil:

[Salstang00]

Well going up to NY for a tune would be my excuse to go back home. I MISS NY.. thanks guys.... We will see what the money deal is and Im hoping for a turbo.

[Starkie]

Where is Gene when you need him?

Starkie

[Whitestang98]

Originally posted by b1nyc
Right across the bridge in Rockland.:evil:

Im usually up in Rockland quite a bit when im home form school...my girlfriend's uncle and cousins live there and theres a few spots where people get together....Do you ever chill in Spring Valley?

Paul

[SCT Guy]

People will want to string me up for this answer, but I'm not one to hold back on my opinion, so here it goes.

Go with a supercharger. I agree that done correctly turbo's will make more power. But, so far, the only kits that I feel were done correctly were the INCON kit (I know the screwed people, but their stuff worked). Here are some turbo examples.

4.6L 2V GT, 8 psi, 340 RWHP. This car 22 psi of backpressure at the turbo inlet. Terrible design.

Same kit as above but finally with 14 psi it made like 410 RWHP.

3.8L kit, turbo too big, wouldn't spool up, 220 RWHP.

4.6L 4V Cobra kit, made full boost at 5500 RPM, all the benefits of a centrifigual with alot more headache.

'03 Cobra with a turbo, 540 RWHP with 22 psi of boost. I would have loved to measured the back pressure at the turbo inlet.

I have talked to several manufacturers and told each of them I won't supply files for their stuff because it's not done correctly. If the car doesn't make power, it's my fault, not their poor design. One guy actually wanted me to make a tune for his turbo with for regular 87 octane fuel, the conversation ended about 15 seconds after this.

Here is the problem with turbos in my opinion;

A supercharger company makes their entire kit, they have all the responsiblity for making it work. Most supercharger companies even supply their own chips tuned by them. They supply an entire system and for the most part it works.

This is not the case with turbos. Does Garrett sell a kit, no, they sell one piece of hardware. The guy buying, for the most part is clueless about what to do with this. He doesn't know about having 2 psi of back pressure per pound of boost, he doesn't know about exhaust housings or anything else. He bends pipe, stuffs it in the car and blames the tuner. He thinks bigger is better, and in turbo's smaller is better.

There is not a turbo kit on the market right now that I would buy. Yes, they make big numbers, but with a lot of boost. Give me a vortech with 14 psi and a cooler and see what numbers it makes...Yes they make low end torque, but that's also a problem. I have a very close friend that builds mod motors but his day job is working for Advanced Powertrain at Ford. He has been blowing these motors before any of you thought about it. With all that low end torque, you will rip the bottom end out with time. Does it happen in 30 days, no. But there are many people on this board that have had superchargers on their car for a while with no failures. We don't have that feed back on turbo's yet.

Like I said, done correctly it will make power.

[Salstang00]

I talked to X2C about their kit and its a GREAT price and that was installed. Their kit with an 03 lowered can produce some insane numbers. Seeing the 03 Cobra they built up that is running 10's and still has room for more is what attracted me to the company. Every time I called the guys on phone offere great service answering my annoyin questions bout the turbo plus other items. I think what makes Turbos expensive is the extra items needed to install, such as K member, 03 cobra pump.... little things like that add up and make the turbos more. If God will bless me witha job here then I will be gettin the turbo next yr. Damn NC not hiring anywhere right now.

[modcoupe]

From personal experience, I took off the Novi 2000 off my car and went with an 80mm turbo. The difference was unreal. The Novi was easy to drive. Just put the pedal on the mat and drive down the track. The turbo is a little more touchy with building boost and the torque at launch is crazy and it keeps building and pulling all the way down the track. Tim Matherly at MV Performance is in Statham,GA. He did the tuning for the Novi and the turbo for me and I couldn't ask for any better service or end product. 770-725-7862

[MC Cobra]

Originally posted by SCT Guy
). Here are some turbo examples.

4.6L 2V GT, 8 psi, 340 RWHP. This car 22 psi of backpressure at the turbo inlet. Terrible design.

Same kit as above but finally with 14 psi it made like 410 RWHP.

3.8L kit, turbo too big, wouldn't spool up, 220 RWHP.

4.6L 4V Cobra kit, made full boost at 5500 RPM, all the benefits of a centrifigual with alot more headache.

'03 Cobra with a turbo, 540 RWHP with 22 psi of boost. I would have loved to measured the back pressure at the turbo inlet.
Like I said, done correctly it will make power.
I see what you're saying, and yes turbo tuning can be a nightmareish job, but the normal numbers you would get would be unreal.
The numbers you supplied above, are those what you got right after the install with no tuning at all or correct supportive hardware(i.e. fuel system, electronics)?
With turbos, true bigger isn't better. What is best is finding the correct size for your application and desired performance.

One other comment:
Originally posted by 96GTS
). -Change boost w/ a knob or button
It's not necessarily that easy, you change the boost pressure, you'll have to change the tune.

[justin00stang]

Originally posted by MC Cobra

It's not necessarily that easy, you change the boost pressure, you'll have to change the tune.

That is the old way, still used by some tooners today. When you get tuned by SCT guy in person or with the SCT pro racer package it will be set up the proper way. The proper way is to let the maf measure additional air (additional boost) and add additional fuel. The IAT will take care of pulling timing for higher air temps (from more boost).

[SCT Guy]

Originally posted by MC Cobra
I see what you're saying, and yes turbo tuning can be a nightmareish job, but the normal numbers you would get would be unreal.
The numbers you supplied above, are those what you got right after the install with no tuning at all or correct supportive hardware(i.e. fuel system, electronics)?
With turbos, true bigger isn't better. What is best is finding the correct size for your application and desired performance.


Tuning the cars was never a problem. They had the right parts. The kits sucked, period. Just because you can buy a turbo and bend tubing does not mean you should be in the turbo business. The A/F was right, the timing was right, they just didn't make power. Wrong exhaust housing, wrong turbine, wrong person putting it together.

[MC Cobra]

Ah, I got ya.

[96mustang_james]

sorry i didn't mean to post in this thread, i thought i was starting a new thread.

[BLue 01]

if u got the money go with a turbo.. I have a Novi on my car and I really like it..
but im switching to a turbo soon.. with a 4V

[BLue 01]

I agree its not a turbo and piping.. u gotta know what ur doing to make it work right.

[OJ's 99 Cobra]

Jerry,

I have a turbo car you can tune, I would like to see your input on it and try to change your mind on turbo kits. If everyone ran a Vortech with 14psi, you would have a pretty boring job. I already have one of your SCT pro-racer packages. Email me at okjohnson35@msn.com

Orson

[ZaC851]

SCT guy did you ever look at the PTK kit. www.proturbokits.com I've seen nothing but good numbers with that Kit. Every dyno chart I've seen made atleast 400 rwhp and almost 500rwtq on 8PSI! Mines going in July 12th for tune and installation so only time will tell.

So far the only cons and I've seen is waiting time. Everyone whos ordered on turbomustangs.com will agree. I waited 17 weeks before I recieved my kit. A LOT of people arent willing to do that and then when you factor in the overall cost it really turns changes alot of peoples minds IMO.

[johndeerrm]

If you want to get serious get about engine management get an AEM, that setup is made for turbo’s and has tons of turbo related features. The modular version will be out some day....

http://www.turbomustangs.com, allow the turbo illiteracy to leave you.

[johndeerrm]

oh yeah, dont touch a turbolossshitty kit with a 10 ft pole.

[ndrcvr]

Wow it sure sounds like SCT Guy hates turbos LOL. I have to disagree with some of his statements. But do agree that people are designing kits but lack knowledge on the designs. These kits that are just fabbed together are crap and put a bad name to other turbo kits out there.

I bet people with the Pro-Turbo Kit or AAI Turbo kit would put out better numbers then what you have seen. I have seen a couple of modulars equiped with PTK kits dynoed in person and the numbers do not lie. There are a few people on this board like inertia, khaine, and zac851 that are going with the turbo route and we shall see what they put out. I know for a fact that they will be pushing higher hp/tq numbers with less boost and lower RPM range. Keep us updated guys! :D

[ndrcvr]

Originally posted by johndeerrm
oh yeah, dont touch a turbolossshitty kit with a 10 ft pole.

:lol: I couldnt have said it any better :lol: