Auto people.

[linktrek]

I already know what the answer to the problem is but I suppose I should post this anyway. I was opening the car WOT up on I-95 and the stock 4r70w started bouncing back and forth from o/d to 3'rd even with the o/d turned off at
about 90mph. Then when I got it off the highway from an idle the tranny slips and then slams into 1st. It goes ok into 2nd and I can drive it in second but in normal dd mode, 3rd gear is complete tranny slip. Fluid checks out ok level and look. Anyone care to give a guess on what happened. I am already thinking of getting a used tranny and getting it j-modded. One thing that bothers me. I have about 460-470 going to the flywheel now. Could have caused the problem or could it have been the transgo that was just installed. Try to hold off on the
"told you so's,"

[linktrek]

Well now that I got her cooled off, after driving the car around awhile, once in a
good while, the transmision slips and then bangs into 1st gear. 99% of the time is doesn't do this. The car drives normal with the o/d turned off. As soon as I let
her go into o/d the is absolute slippage. There is no power getting to the wheels in o/d. Does this sound like I need a new tranny or is it possible I need some parts to be replaced in the one I have?

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

With great restraint, I will refrain from uttering that phrase you are going to hear again and again ... (j/k).

OK, rewind a bit for me. Was this problem happening before the TransGo kit was installed? If it JUST started following the TransGo installation, I have to say that the kit should come back out. Maybe one of the check balls is missing (one or two come out per the TransGo instructions, I think). Jerry W. wrote a good note about the TransGo kit and noted the places it could use improving. If you can find it, it may help to explain the missing 4th gear [in a TransGo-ed 4R70W].

Another possibility is that the bolts holding the valve body to the transmission have backed out a bit allowing fluid to slip where it shouldn't and showing up as slipping. The fluid is under a fair amount of pressure so it is essential that all the bolts are torqued to spec (90 lb-in). How is the fluid level? Does the ATF look bright red, clear, and not smelly (burnt)? These are simple checks to make.

Now, 3-4 WOT shifts are generally forbidden for us 4R70W owners. The OD band will burn quickly and this is, perhaps, what has happened to your transmission. It does not take many WOT 3-4 shifts to kill the band. With all that torque, I am betting your OD band has gone the way of the Great Awk. It does not look too terrible a job to replace the band (no personal experience but the ATSG shows how).

Anyway, I will thumb through the ATSG manual this weekend and see if there is anything obvious to look for. Hopefully, Darrin / dirtyd0g / Johnny Langton / Kris Danner [the tranny gurus, imo] will chime in with some helpful suggestions for you.

**edit: SS2 (shift solenoid No. 2) failed OFF will leave you with 1st and 2nd only. Maybe the 'black plastic electric clip' (whatever it is called) is not fully seated? **end of edit.

HTH,

Chris

[TGJ]

Get rid of the Trans-Go shift kit ASAP, you will need to get a new Valve Body because the Trans-Go messed up yours. Hopefully it is just the shift kit causing your issue...

[linktrek]

I got the Transgo HD2 reprograming kit put in. I believe the valvebody is already drilled through so I imagine it wouldnt 'help to have the kit removed. I am leaning more towards getting a used or rebuilt 4r70w and get it Jmoded. But I think something was up before the transgo went in. In my last two passes I took in the car many months ago, I lost some mph in the trap and my tranny did pop into o/d when it was not supposed to. I seem to be able to drive the car with the o/d off around town so atleast I can use the car. But I rather start off with a whole new tranny and get the j-mod put in.
Question. Could it be that I put too much HP and TQ through the tranny that caused the problem? In that case it may pay for me to get a tranny that is somewhat built up. As far as Darrin, JL, KDanner chiming in here, I don't think they will do to the stupidy factor of putting in a transgo kit:leave:

[MeanGreen96]

Before messing with a used tranny I would get another valve body and J-Mod it. It's cheaper and easier. If it works, great! If not, go for the rebuild.

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

OK, you put in a TransGo. It's not the world's biggest sin and you are on the "right path to enlightenment" now. :D In the Mustang/T-Bird/Cougar/CV community, we are very fortunate that Jerry W. was kind enough to write up his tranny articles to help us out. TransGo has an effective marketing scheme, a nicely boxed kit, and they have sold a lot of kits. Some people never have problems with the kit, some people do. Don't be so hard on yourself. Chalk this up to live and learn.

Chris

[TruBlu02]

If you don't have the tools/ability to do the J-Mod then get a valve body from PA, mine works vey well and has over 300 passes and 40,000 miles on it.
I think they are still around 250 bucks. And shame on you for doing the 3-4 at WOT. Isn't that the second commandment for automatics right after "thall shalt not install the Trans Go"?

[nyuk98gt]

Darrin (bc-automotive.com) also offers valvebodies for the 4R70W. (No flame intended to PA, TruBlu02, just giving the lad some options).

Chris

[TruBlu02]

Darrin (bc-automotive.com) also offers valvebodies for the 4R70W. (No flame intended to PA, TruBlu02, just giving the lad some options).

Chris

No problem, I have heard nothing but good things about Darrin and his products.

[Johnny Langton]

Irwin,it's a really easy fix for you.
Get out checkbook.
Call dealer of choice.
Order new valve body.
JL

[linktrek]

Well I let the tranny sit for a couple weeks and then I drove it to the dealer for them to look at because they put in the transgo (no flaming please.)When I drove it to the dealer I got all my gears back with no slipping except in o/d. Do we still agree that it could be the VB?

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

No flame intended, just another Mustang guy's advice: I really believe that the T/G has got to go. Why? Well, there were no problems before the T/G but problems after.

The hole in the v/b can be plugged with a brass rod (peened over on the ends -- kind of metal arts work) or you might try epoxy (ATF is pretty tame, chemically-speaking). If, like me, knowing that there "was" a hole in the v/b would bother you, then get a new v/b (j-modded, of course) and swap it in for the current one.

The only other things I can think of is that the bolts are not torqued down properly or the OD band is burnt. If it is the former, then ATF will squirt where it isn't supposed to and the shift(s) will be 'off'. That's the easy solution but I am not hopeful (sorry to say). If the band is burnt, then you need to have it replaced (it's not too big a job from what I see in the ATSG manual).

But I am putting my money on the "TransGo out/new v/b" fix.

Good luck and please post back with an update.

Chris

[linktrek]

If you don't have the tools/ability to do the J-Mod then get a valve body from PA, mine works vey well and has over 300 passes and 40,000 miles on it.
I think they are still around 250 bucks. And shame on you for doing the 3-4 at WOT. Isn't that the second commandment for automatics right after "thall shalt not install the Trans Go"?

How much are they and can you give me the link to their site

[TruBlu02]

Performance Automatic (http://www.performanceautomatic.com/valvebodies.htm)
You'll have to call for pricing or pm Darrien aka Dirty dog.

[KenB]

Dean,

Darrin and DirtyDog are differnt people but friends. I'm guessing here, but Darrin probably does his own valve bodies but I could be wrong. Modular Depot is a PA dealer and can get it for you. PM Kelly Pelrine or call on Monday.


Ken

[linktrek]

Are you guys sure the VB fluxered? You know what my options are. Option A is to get the VB. Option B is the whole rebuilt tranny. Option A seems to be a bit of a gamble because if it doesn't fix the tranny then I have to worry about whats wrong with the rest of the tranny. Let's take a vote since I got all the auto peoples attention here.
How many people vote Option A and how many people voter option B... or soever hold your peace. :hammer:

[96SOHC]

This is Darrins web site, he does his own valve bodies as Ken mentioned. BC Automotive (http://www.bc-automotive.com/)

Or, call MD for the PA stuff.

[linktrek]

I'll accept that as 1 for option A

[TruBlu02]

Dean,

Darrin and DirtyDog are differnt people but friends. I'm guessing here, but Darrin probably does his own valve bodies but I could be wrong. Modular Depot is a PA dealer and can get it for you. PM Kelly Pelrine or call on Monday.


Ken

Thanks Ken, when did you guy's become PA dealers? I like their stuff.
Do Darrin or Dirty Dog have anything to do with Circle D? I see thier name a lot on the borads also.

[TruBlu02]

Irwin do you still have the the trans go on the car?

[linktrek]

Dean.. isn't $250 alittle low on a new VB. I haven't seen anthing under $500

[linktrek]

Irwin do you still have the the trans go on the car?
I don't even have the car. My Ford man has the car. But yes.. the transgo is still on the car. I would have to pay labor to take it off because as you know I can't even change a tire on a car:hammerhd:

[TruBlu02]

I bought mine 4 years ago for around 250. I just looked at BC automotives site they want 300.00.

[MeanGreen96]

Get the VB!

[KenB]

Thanks Ken, when did you guy's become PA dealers? I like their stuff.
Do Darrin or Dirty Dog have anything to do with Circle D? I see thier name a lot on the borads also.

Since October. We are also a TCI dealer. So far so good with both companies.

Darrin is BC Auto which is out of Indiana. He does tuning and tranny stuff. Dirty Dog is Allen and he is from around here and does Converter and trannies. They are buddies. Circle D is out of Texas and doesnt' have any connection to either of them.

[TruBlu02]

Since October. We are also a TCI dealer. So far so good with both companies.

Darrin is BC Auto which is out of Indiana. He does tuning and tranny stuff. Dirty Dog is Allen and he is from around here and does Converter and trannies. They are buddies. Circle D is out of Texas and doesnt' have any connection to either of them.

Thanks, damn I knew that. I forgot Allen is from around Cinci. I guess my age is catching up to me. I have been away from the net for a long time and suffer from CRS.
Does TCI make convertors for the 2v cars or just c4 stuff?

[KenB]

Thanks, damn I knew that. I forgot Allen is from around Cinci. I guess my age is catching up to me. I have been away from the net for a long time and suffer from CRS.
Does TCI make convertors for the 2v cars or just c4 stuff?


TCI makes convertors for 4R70W's and 4R100. They are working on valve bodies right now. Honestly I don't have a ton of experience with TCI but out new guy Mike is in very good with them and thinks they are great. Tony Atkins of TCI drives the NMRA Drag Radial car owned by the Posey's and Mike is the crew chief for them. Vinny Barber's 05 Mustang that you can read about in our shop section has a TCI C4 and convertor in it. It's working out very well. Ron Hoover's 05 Mustang is getting a PA C4 and PTC converter in it which we have also had great luck with.

We will be offering both brands as I think both companines offer a great product.

[BigCohiba]

FWIW, I had a TCI converter and deep pan for the 4R70W in my '99. Worked great.

[linktrek]

Gosh .. I wish I knew of a place that would let me buy their valve body and return it if it didn't fix my car...Maybe they could PM me:evil:

[KenB]

Gosh .. I wish I knew of a place that would let me buy their valve body and return it if it didn't fix my car...Maybe they could PM me:evil:



Are you suggesting that someone would sell you a new valve body, and then take it back if it doesn't fix your issue and then resell it as new? Or, resell it as used and eat the difference? Sounds like a good business model to me, lol.

[linktrek]

Sorry. I didn't realize that a new VB would become used if it had 10miles on it:leave:

[KenB]

Sorry. I didn't realize that a new VB would become used if it had 10miles on it:leave:

It would be considered used once you bolt it on IMO. How would you like to buy something new that you found out was installed on someone's car? I sure as hell would be pissed.

[linktrek]

I think we are thinking in different perspectives. In my mind I have already been
thinking of going to the local junk yards and getting my hands on a tranny there. After thinking this way you can imagine how I might think a VB is new after 10 miles. I'm not saying I'm right its must my mind has been in the junk yard lately:confused:

[TruBlu02]

I'd like to return my Nitto's, they only have 100 passes on them. They did not solve my hooking problem.

[linktrek]

That's not the same. You know what the other name for Nittos are.
Am I being semi gang flamed now:hammerhd:

[TruBlu02]

That's not the same. You know what the other name for Nittos are.
Am I being semi gang flamed now:hammerhd:
Whoa there buddy, that's sounds kinda ghey. Just giving you some shit, it's what I'm good at.:thumb:

[linktrek]

well this isn't smack talk. I'm tryng to put together the best stradegy to get a 4R70W working.This is quite a serious subject on my part

[TruBlu02]

well this isn't smack talk. I'm tryng to put together the best stradegy to get a 4R70W working.This is quite a serious subject on my part

I'll smack when and where I choose, no thread is safe.

Get that F'ing trans go off to start with. Call a good tranny (the transmission type) shop and talk to them about it. If it wasn't doing this before the trans go then swap it back and see if that fixes it.

[linktrek]

I'll smack when and where I choose, no thread is safe.

Get that F'ing trans go off to start with. Call a good tranny (the transmission type) shop and talk to them about it. If it wasn't doing this before the trans go then swap it back and see if that fixes it.
Things aren't as crystal clear as you might think. Last year last passes my traps were a bit low and sporatic. On one of the final passes, the car shifted into 0/D with the O/D turned off. This was way back when I had the J-Mod running in it. For this reason, I am leaning towards the rebuilt tranny for $800.
I also plan on selling the car as soon as it is fit. I'm trading it in for a 150cc Motor Scooter that gets 80mpg. This is my way of controlling the gas prices at
the pump. It is being shipped as we speak. And I may add that the first thing I am going to do is to remove the govener to pick up 5mph on my top spead which should be 70mph:headbang:

[Darrin]

Ok, a rebuilt transmission for $800... :lol2:

Ain't no way in hell you are going to get any sort of semblance of quality for that price. Don't feed the con artists. You WILL be sorry.

Just as an FYI, I have more money in parts than that in pretty much any of my transmissions.

[linktrek]

All water over the dam. I already made up in my mind that I am selling my stang. I've been through too much grief just with the TQ. Time for a new hobby.:hammer:

[linktrek]

OK. It's all you guys against the head mechanic over at the local Ford dealership. I went and visited the Ford mechanic today. This is what he says about my tranny. Now he hasn't even opened the tranny up yet. He says that he is *100%* sure that there is something simple wrong with my transmission. He says that these transmissions rarely break and that my repair will be $90 or <
for the fix. He makes no mention of valve body. As a matter of fact he almost ruled the vb out when I first spoke to him a while back. So let's see who's right..
MD's auto experts or Ford Motors expert. This is getting interesting.

[Johnny Langton]

OK. It's all you guys against the head mechanic over at the local Ford dealership. I went and visited the Ford mechanic today. This is what he says about my tranny. Now he hasn't even opened the tranny up yet. He says that he is *100%* sure that there is something simple wrong with my transmission. He says that these transmissions rarely break and that my repair will be $90 or <
for the fix. He makes no mention of valve body. As a matter of fact he almost ruled the vb out when I first spoke to him a while back. So let's see who's right..
MD's auto experts or Ford Motors expert. This is getting interesting.
He's a fucking idiot,and you honesty deserve any and all that happens to you with this car-I'm fed up with reading about it,and fed up with you second guessing the people that you're asking for help.
You installed(had somebody install) a Trans-Go kit after you were warned repeatedly to NOT do it. Enjoy the problems that you've created.
JL

[linktrek]

Calm down JL. Let's just see how this thing plays out. I had the transgo in the car for less than 500 miles. Even transgo's aren't reported to be as bad as that.

[jimfitzgerald]

He's a fucking idiot,and you honesty deserve any and all that happens to you with this car-I'm fed up with reading about it,and fed up with you second guessing the people that you're asking for help.
You installed(had somebody install) a Trans-Go kit after you were warned repeatedly to NOT do it. Enjoy the problems that you've created.
JLI agree. Order a valve body from PA or BC and see if that fixes the problem. If not, then get a built 4R70W from PA or BC or whoever and be done with it.

[Johnny Langton]

Calm down JL. Let's just see how this thing plays out. I had the transgo in the car for less than 500 miles. Even transgo's aren't reported to be as bad as that.
Or so all of your "experts" are telling you. I don't think you'll ever learn no matter what people tell you.
JL

[linktrek]

I'm just a bystander with a broken tranny. I'm not diagreeing with you. Jim's assessment of my transmission is just different than yours. The beef you have should be against Jim.. not me.

[Darrin]

Can you describe your symptoms EXACTLY?

Does it neutral at any point when it should be pulling?
Does it slip anywhere, and if so, exactly in what gear(s)?
You say it bangs, when and how and at what throttle position?
How does the fluid look and smell?
Have you checked the fluid in neutral and made sure that the level you think it is has fluid coverage all the way around the stick?

Need to know more.

Darrin

[nyuk98gt]

Loose bolts sink shifts :D

Chris

[linktrek]

I'm just a bystander with a broken tranny. I'm not diagreeing with you. Jim's assessment of my transmission is just different than yours. The beef you have should be against Jim.. not me. I might mention that Jim is my Ford mechanic. Not the JIm here

[Darrin]

So are you going to fill us in on the exact symptoms to make it more fair since you have decided to pit us against this "Jim"?

Darrin

[linktrek]

Darrin. The first post in this thread is as exact as I can get. If you need more info, ask and I'll see if I can remember. But remember that the car sat and then the only problem I was getting was that the car was completely slipping in o/d.
The tranny fluid was full and looking good.

['01 Steed]

So... Did Jim fix your problem? If so, what did he fix?

I don't think you should make such a shrude decision and sell the car just because you have problems with a mod that is known to give us problems, and apparently you were warned against doing.
Buck up and put in a vb, and enjoy your Stang!

[89foxlx]

Sounds like you smoked the OD band to me...LoL.. (possible drum damage)
I say a good rebuild and a Jmod will fix it... Throw the transgo in the trash...LoL.. Oh and 4r70s break all the time...LoL I thought it was funny that he told you they didn't... I've built hundreds of them.. Fairly easy rebuild actually.. If you're running 11's and have spent the money to run 11's then I think its time to spend the money on a good trans. (darrin, lentech, Pa, or whomever).. Sucks when anyones car breaks but gotta pay to play..
oh yeah and the other good saying goes "if you buy cheap you buy twice"
just thought I'd throw that out there..
good luck!
Matt:cheers:

[linktrek]

I got a quick briefing on my tranny from the ford guy. So far he mentioned fiber
and a drum that needs to be replaced. I will know more in detail tomorrow when I get the estimate. Question. How can fibers and a drum make the car slip in 3rd and momentarily in 1st?

[linktrek]

Sounds like you smoked the OD band to me...LoL.. (possible drum damage)
I say a good rebuild and a Jmod will fix it... Throw the transgo in the trash...LoL.. Oh and 4r70s break all the time...LoL I thought it was funny that he told you they didn't... I've built hundreds of them.
Matt:cheers:

By not breaking too much he might have meant trannies that haven't been raced with high horsepower. I bet all he sees is trannies that were under normal
conditions.

[linktrek]

Another question is , if the drum is bad then could the VB cause something like that?

['01 Steed]

I think he's referring to your OD band (fiber).

Your shift kit may be to blame. That, or you're doing WOT runs with OD on.

['01 Steed]

Oh, and while he's in there, why not have him throw in the good stuff:

TCCoA Transmission Article - Index (http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml) (see chapters 7 thru 12)

[linktrek]

I don't know if he through in any good stuff but he threw in clutches and some other goodies and garanteed the tranny (even with knowing I race the car) for 12/12. He is convinced it wasn't the valve body and with the 12/12 warrantee, he put his money where his mouth was.
On Monday I will go over what he did and try to get him to email everything he did.
Now I'm going to have half the board hoping that my tranny goes south just to prove they were right about the VB that breaking my car:hammerhd:

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

No, no, I (and most others, I think) wish your tranny no harm! I hope it all hangs together the way you want and it stands up even better than the original. We're just pretty passionate about transmission hydraulics :D .

Could the VB affect the clutches, etc.? Certainly. It depends on the pressure (and by implication, flow) and too much or too little is bad. Too much flow to one place and you'll overheat something somewhere else. It is all about balancing flows within the transmission. (I am not much of transmission guru, just a voracious reader of transmission threads).

Let me help spend some of your loot. Put a tranny cooler on the car. They are very inexpensive (<$75 for the parts and, maybe, $75 to cover installation if you don't want to do it yourself). Very cheap insurance compared to the cost of a tranny rebuild or a new transmission.

Going back to the VB and hydraulics, the J-mod opens up holes so that more fluid can move through at the same pressure. This means faster shifts and less friction so less heat generated and this is always a good thing. The improved hydraulics mean that the innards won't be starved of ATF that lubricates and cools. So, one last pitch: have your transmission guy have a crack at the J-mod and your tranny will serve you well for years to come. There, no more J-mod nagging from me.

Enjoy the fresh transmission! :cheers:

Chris

[linktrek]

Hey I really appreciate that. I do have a cooler already for my TQ

['01 Steed]

Do you have it routed thru the radiator also? I eliminated that part of the circuit altogether (I only drive it April to October). I figure since you're in Florida, you don't need to re/preheat the fluid.
I could swear my t/c doesn't slip as much now.

[linktrek]

You know its been so long ago I forget the way I put it in. I know I used the diagram they supplied with the cooler.

[linktrek]

Well here is what the ford man did to the tranny
We removed transmission completely form car mounted it to a bench disassembled to inspect for damage found one-way sprag retaining ring came off found overdrive brake drum damaged from rivets in overdrive band found forward fibers and steels burnt also found direct clutches and high rev clutches burnt replaced all worn components and resealed transmission installed new drum and flushed lines and cooler post test seems ok has all gears and good line pressure
However, the original problem is still there.
In the likely event that it is the VB then I'm going to Jmod the new VB. Does any one know where I can buy the blue upper 1-2 accumulator spring for the JMOD?

[dirtyd0g]

Well here is what the ford man did to the tranny
We removed transmission completely form car mounted it to a bench disassembled to inspect for damage found one-way sprag retaining ring came off found overdrive brake drum damaged from rivets in overdrive band found forward fibers and steels burnt also found direct clutches and high rev clutches burnt replaced all worn components and resealed transmission installed new drum and flushed lines and cooler post test seems ok has all gears and good line pressure
However, the original problem is still there.
In the likely event that it is the VB then I'm going to Jmod the new VB. Does any one know where I can buy the blue upper 1-2 accumulator spring for the JMOD?

You can get the spring from ford, I suggest going with the brown spring it's cheaper and works just as well, just make sure you use the lower spring and you'll be fine.
Alan

[linktrek]

If I remember correctly when we did the jmod we put in a blue upper 1-2 spring and left the bottom one out??
Plus how do I ask Ford to get me the spring? Do I just say to give me a brown
1-2 accumulator spring for a 4r70w?

[dirtyd0g]

If I remember correctly when we did the jmod we put in a blue upper 1-2 spring and left the bottom one out??
Plus how do I ask Ford to get me the spring? Do I just say to give me a brown
1-2 accumulator spring for a 4r70w?I'm sure Randy will know what you are talking about there.
Alan

[linktrek]

No. I spoke with him and he didn't know about the spring. I've been trying to track down Dan Newman but so far with no luck.

['01 Steed]

Isn't there a part number in the TCCOA write ups somewhere?

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

blue spring = F75Z-7F284-AA (from A-Train's how-to article on TCCoA.com/Technical Articles/Transmissions. Maybe your parts guy can track down the brown spring (if you want it) based on the blue spring number?

Chris

[silvertoy]

Epc,shift sol,mlp,sticking valve,i have seen all these thing make your trans do what it is doing.more then i have seen the tran-go do it,get your money back and find a trans guy that know how to fix's a hotrod.there are alot of them that will fix's it on the side,and say u money.my trans-go and 4200 stall has been in for 60,000 miles still going.

[linktrek]

If my symtoms can be caused by all these things then to rule out all of these things doesn't it sound like it would be faster just to put in a new tranny?

[linktrek]

BTW here is where I am at. I have a used valve body that i bought with the harness. The only problem is that I can't tell what year tranny it is out of. I'd might like to Jmod it and stick it in an see if it fixes it. There is still risk in fixing this way. I noticed that the new directions of the Jmod over TCCOA no longer shows the picture of the serperator plate with the numbered holes and the holes labeled?

[linktrek]

I changed my mind. I am buying a new PA valve body. How is this VB different from a stock one and does it need to be jmoded? If is does then which directions should I use for the Jmod. Should I use the upgraded directions that only need a couple holes drilled or do I have to use the upgrade directions?
With all this in mind I still have the option of buying a brand new 4r70w from Ebay for about $1k

['01 Steed]

I think a valve body will fix your problems, if they're not caused be something simple like air in the passages or a misaligned separator plate gasket or something. I'd bet it's some sticky shuttle valves or something in the v/b.

Mechanically, your trans all new except the v/b. PA is good choice. :thumb:

[dirtyd0g]

No. I spoke with him and he didn't know about the spring. I've been trying to track down Dan Newman but so far with no luck.

Jason knows the part numbers off the top of his head.

[linktrek]

Who is Jason???
BTW does anyone know the difference in performance between a stock VB and a PA street and strip VB?

[nyuk98gt]

Darrin (bc-automotive.com) also offers valvebodies for the 4R70W. (No flame intended to PA).

Chris

linktrek:

Just offering an alternative VB source for your consideration. He does nice work and he posts very helpful tech on this board (and others). No, I don't get a commission, I'm just trying to keep the modding cash in the MD family. :banghead2

I would be leary about the $1k transmission, too. To me, it sounds too good to be true (and you know what that means). Sorry to sound like your parent but you should only spend your money once!

HTH,

Chris

[linktrek]

Darrin and I spoke on the phone. Real nice guy.. his posts don't do him justice:)
I don't really go to the track that much anymore so I'm not hardcore anymore so I opted for finacial reasons to go with a new PA VB from Ken.
I going to have my mechanic slap it in when it gets here. Cross your fingers guys... if this combo doesn't work then I just pissed another $1k down the drain
and I'm stuck with a car without tranny again.

[Darrin]

linktrek:

Just offering an alternative VB source for your consideration. He does nice work and he posts very helpful tech on this board (and others). No, I don't get a commission, I'm just trying to keep the modding cash in the MD family. :banghead2

I would be leary about the $1k transmission, too. To me, it sounds too good to be true (and you know what that means). Sorry to sound like your parent but you should only spend your money once!

HTH,

Chris
Ironically, without reading this thread at all for the last couple of weeks, that is exactly what I just told him on the phone.

And of course I am VERY biased toward my own products because I have seen all of the rest. I can without a doubt honestly tell you that there is no better product out there for the money because I have taken all of the rest apart to see what they do to them. I know what is better and I have nothing to gain by telling you guys anything other than the truth here. I will be crucified online if I throw out any kind of BS. A lot of knowledgeable people watch these threads and are waiting for the chance to jump all over garbage from anyone.

But, as always, the best way to decide what to do is go and find people that are unhappy with their choice in products and ask them why. Looking for happy people doesn't always get you where you need to be.

Darrin

[linktrek]

Darrin... Do you know how to J-mod a PA VB? Maybe I can ship it to you?? Then again if you can't adjust the pressure in the VB maybe the JMod won't work in a PA VB???

[linktrek]

I have a confession to make. I didn't want to post it as I thought I would get banished from 4r70w world. When I first got my car back with the Trash-go in it,
the tranny at WOT would make a high pitched (I don't know how else to describe it) squeeling noise. My mechanic passed it to me as normal and that it was just the transmission fluid flowing through the larger exhaust holes. I didn't want to make waves at the time because when I got the car back I also had my cams installed at the same time. I had tunning issues going on the cams. Also I didn't want to cause problems with him. Maybe I ought to bring this issue up to him now that I am up to my neck in deep do do:leave:

[nyuk98gt]

linktrek:

For the shift pressures, it is best to do it via the PCM -- there are 'functions' in the program for upshifts and downshifts and manual shifts, etc. It is possible to modify the little springs on each of the 'pistons' (whatever they are called) in the valvebody so that pressure is made higher/lower, too. But the 4R70W was designed to be computer controlled so, imo, it is best to adjust the transmission parameters in the tune. (Of course, Darrin does this, too). One of the key things to improving the way fluid moves from one part of the transmission to the other is to reduce pressure loss in the VB. This is, essentially, what the J-mod does. It open up the orifices (holes) to very specific sizes so that the fluid moves quicker at any given pressure. This results in very quick shifts but not jarring (i.e.--eventually damaging) shifts. I say very specific sizes because too big can cause problems, too.

A bunch of folks here run the PA VB and are happy with it (and KenB wouldn't sell something that would reduce or harm the performance/life of your vehicle!) and many folks are running J-modded VB's and are delighted with the results. I like the J-mod as you can tell from my previous replies. The choice is yours but (again, sounding like one of your parents) I would give Darrin one more phone call and then confirm your decision.

I would definitely mention the high pitched noise to your mechanic. Maybe a search of TransGo and noise will turn up some helpful old threads? I would argue that with larger holes and the same pressure, the fluid velocity is lower and is much less likely to make any noise. It is possible that the noise was generated by an internal leak, too (no offense intended towards your mechanic/technician). Anyway, the new VB will not make any noise. By discussing the noise with your mechanic/technician, he will be less likely to install something like the T/G in another vehicle and he might even knock a little off the price of the new VB installation. (Customer loyalty sort of thing :) ).

We haven't jumped all over you (much) so far and I think it proves that we just want you to get your car fixed up right so you can go enjoy driving it again. After a few rough results, you can start to dislike your car!

GL with your "final" VB decision. Keep us posted, please.

Chris

[linktrek]

I know my mechanic pretty well. I know that he will install the vb for free since the repair got fluxerd. I hope...

[Silver95Bird]

Well here is what the ford man did to the tranny
We removed transmission completely form car mounted it to a bench disassembled to inspect for damage found one-way sprag retaining ring came off found overdrive brake drum damaged from rivets in overdrive band found forward fibers and steels burnt also found direct clutches and high rev clutches burnt replaced all worn components and resealed transmission installed new drum and flushed lines and cooler post test seems ok has all gears and good line pressure
However, the original problem is still there.
In the likely event that it is the VB then I'm going to Jmod the new VB. Does any one know where I can buy the blue upper 1-2 accumulator spring for the JMOD?

So did he replace the crappy retaining ring with a spiral lock version, or at least tack weld it to the drum? Or is the new setup going to do the same thing the next time it gets high rpm use? It's one or the other. The spirals come in a 3 pack for about $10, so they aren't exactly expensive. May I ask what exactly is a "high-rev" clutch? If it's not the forward or direct, then its either the reverse or intermediate (2nd gear) clutches. Neither of those are any more "high rev" than the others. And if he can't tell the difference between a sprag, a roller, and a mechanical diode he shouldn't be rebuilding 4R70W's. I honestly think the best solution to your transgo problem is to buy a VB either from someone who upgraded to a PA VB or a new one from Randy. You could probably find a used one and J-mod it for far less and have a much more durable and reliable result. It's cheaper that way too. But I suppose it's all IMO, I just rebuild my own...

[linktrek]

I bought a new PA VB if you read the thread. I also bought a used stock VB and was going to JMod it and put it in but since the VB is used I decided against it because if something is wrong with it, the used VB could introduce new problems and make the whole thing more complicated.

[linktrek]

Does anyone happen to know if a PA VB comes with a core. They didn't ask for one back and I don't know what a core looks like??
My mechanic has the *new valve body*in hand. He says after my last test drive that the o/d belt is fried again with new damage on the drum. If I didn't pass this on, I went to pick up the car and it drove real nice until I got on I-95 and tried it WOT. The car hit 70mph and felt like it hit a rev limiter. Inother words it had the same problem it had before the fix. Also I took it out for a test drive with him in it and at WOT the tranny slipped in 1st. The result was the damage that I stated above. I'm trying to think positive difficult as it may be. I was promised a simple problem and got a guestimate of $80 or $90:confused:

[Darrin]

Just an FYI, slipping in 1st gear is not due to any burnt band or drum and it didnt' burn those things either.

Darrin

[linktrek]

Yeah .. I know. It felt like the damage was done when I was WOT and couldn't get past 70mph in 3rd gear. It was like I was bouncing of a rev limiter . The car upshifted into o/d WOT and I'm sure that roasted the belt and damaged the drum. The slipping in 1st gear is still a mystery. I'm hoping that the VB takes care of that.
Also Jim reported the 2-3 accumulator torn. Whatever the problem is, it sure reeks havick on the tranny.Seems like it causes it to disintegrate very quickly.

[linktrek]

OK. It's all you guys against the head mechanic over at the local Ford dealership. I went and visited the Ford mechanic today. This is what he says about my tranny. Now he hasn't even opened the tranny up yet. He says that he is *100%* sure that there is something simple wrong with my transmission. He says that these transmissions rarely break and that my repair will be $90 or <
for the fix. He makes no mention of valve body. As a matter of fact he almost ruled the vb out when I first spoke to him a while back. So let's see who's right..
MD's auto experts or Ford Motors expert. This is getting interesting.
I guess I found out real fast who is right. It not like Jim to make a statement like that and then come back with a totally different estimate and story after he
cracked the tranny open. It felt like he body slammed me when I was waiting for
a $90 repair and got a $600 repair bill.

[GrantGT2000]

It felt like he body slammed me when I was waiting for a $90 repair and got a $600 repair bill.

Well, it's not like the rest of the guys didn't try to warn you. I think you should be happy it's *just* $600 worth of damage. Actually, I'm thinking even that sounds a little low for a complete rebuild, unless he is doing it for cheap.

And I know you don't need to hear it again, but...why not just do the J-mod?

I did it on my stock-ish daily driver 'vert...which I really beat on. And it will definitely be done when I re-do my modified coupe.

[linktrek]

Whats done is done. I bought the new PA valve body and they are going to attempt to "build" the transmission and have it in Monday night. I told them to take it on the main interstate down here and beat on it awhile before they give it back to me. Now I'm not expecting any more additional charges because they
took my car which had "1" scratch on it since I had it in March of 2004 and now there are three of them on the drivers side panels.They did replace the side scoop already.. no charge to me. I was pissed off because of this but I held my kewl. I should have them paint the car rather then just touch up the car. Also I didn't check yet whether there were any dings associated with the scratches

[BIGDOGBIZKIT]

this thread is lame

[linktrek]

Final outcome. The tranny was rebuilt and has the PA VB in it. Don't ask me what parts they used for the rebuild but I know they threw in alot of parts. The tranny works like a dream now. The shifts are not a aggresive as the j-mod but I'm not going to be going to the track too much anymore. I'm taking out the nitrous and I'm going to start taking real good care of the car now. I'm even going to put the back seats back in. I got a chinese motorcycle (scooter) that is tons of fun to drive around. Last two tanks I got 75mpg out of it and the fill up is less than $4. It goes about 90 miles till I have to fill up. I could take it to 100 acourding to my calculations but I don't want to run out of gas.
Final verdict. We will never know what fixed the tranny because so much new stuff was thrown in :cheers: